Yknow, I stopped reading the MDT’s (Main Discussion Threads in the Story Development Forum over at Megatokyo) about a month ago. I’ve never let the MDT discussions effect the story i’ve planned out, and in many ways i’ve kind of used it as a way to guage what people think of the storyline and if what i’m trying to get across in the comics is working or not. Reading these forums for the first part of any chapter is not healthy for me because it is the same old bullshit i deal with time and time again - i start a story thread, and it gets picked to peices before there is any real data for people to play with. I recently realized that this is counter productive for me, and decided that i really needed to curb my feedback intake. Will i loose touch with the readers and will MT suddenly become really crappy? I don’t know. I do know that i do what i want to do, and the only thing negative feedback does is give me an ulcer, so i might as well skip on the ulcer. 
When i start many storylines with new elements, it leads to nothing more than bizzare speculation that is soon corrected as more strips are introduced. Then there are the more controversial elements or things that have a lot of stereotypes attached to them, which ALWAYS initially result in a lot of people bashing what i am doing for either shallowness or lameness or for having no real purpose to the story, as some sort of lame cop-out or cheap laugh. Later, of course, after 10 more strips where things become clearer, these same people find that there is a lot to chew on in terms of story development, character development, social, psychological and philosophical (depending on how deep you read into it) commentary. And, of course, the ever present issue of perceptions.
Perceptions not only of the characters to each other, but of the readers as you bring YOUR perceptions to the story as well. Sometimes this makes for a pretty interesting mix, sometimes it falls flat, but they are never as ’shallow’ or ‘lame’ as i always get accused of near the beginning of them. Excuse me for trying to take lame stereotypes and memes in anime (and there a fuckload of them) and trying to do something profound with them. I’m really getting tired of getting thwacked around for it. I am making fun of them, and that requires USING some of them.
I have only once let one of these story threads drop (the conscience subplot) and why did i let it drop? Because i let the commentary get to me. I was more afraid of what people were saying that i was of not properly finishing my ideas. I suppose other creators have these kinds of problems, getting cold feet about their ideas, but i also think that other creators aren’t dealing with every page they do being scrutinized as they tell the story. That’s what’s fucking wrong with webcomics, and why people rag on MT for being a sucky webcomic while joke-a-day comics are considered the gold standard. Boo hoo for me because i am trying to do something more complicated in a medium that doesn’t quite fit what i’d doing and trying to get people to pay a bit more attention than the average media-saturated human being can manage these days.
Yes, i know, Blame the medium, blame the readers, it’s not my fault, yadda yadda. It is a fact that I have to deal with within the realities of the medium I am trying to work. If I challenge that medium, I have to be prepared to take a lot of shit for it. I do, and have, for years. It’s nice to say “just wait, the final end product is great” but if people get turned off or don’t enjoy the process as it happens, then they might not go back and read it as an “end product”. It’s a fine line to walk, and i’ve mistepped on both sides of that line many times over the years.
Anyways, its the same problem i have every time something potentially stereotypical shows up in the comic: Let me fucking finish before you start hanging my head on a pike. Give it a fucking rest.
And my apologies for the “Emo” and “angsty” rant. Feel free to go ahead and fall back on the same old labels you all like to throw at me on a regular basis.
pirotunes: Silent Hill OST - “Dance With Night Wind”
If I could ask for just one thing it would be a Copic coloring of panel 6
The problem is that there’s no competition. Of all of the primarily story-driven webcomics I’ve read, none have characters with equal depth, complexity and backstory. Because there’s nothing in the same league to which people can compare Megatokyo, any faults they find they are disinclined to ignore. Also the culture of the discussion threads encourages people to overanalyse the comic to ludicrous degrees, which doesn’t help at all.
I find that I try to not comment beyond generalities for the first 10 or 15 comics of a new chapter. That’s so that I don’t try to over-analyze without enough information. I do hope that someone else would try to create a plot-driven webcomic so that (even if it sucks) MegaTokyo can actually be compared to something else like itself. That may server to protect MT from the ‘apples-to-oranges’ comparisons that we’re seeing now, by growing more apples ^_^
You have chosen wisely: Skip the ulcer. Ignore the nattering naysayers. (Or, as I overheard whilst brunching in April at the NoHo Star in Manhattan, “Accept advice only from those you admire.”)
And, yes, I do hope to eventually see the conscience subplot continued…primarily ’cause Seraphim and Boo deserve more screen time. (Belphegor too. Don’t tell Bel I said that.) But all in good time.
–GS
Hell man, why would you go into the forums anyway? Go with yer gut - get it all out there as YOU see it… if people don’t like it F’m. I’ve been following this story long enough to know it’s in good hands: you’ve yet to disappoint me… in fact, I just finished reading Vol 4 and had to re-read 1-3 again… I had forgotten just how entertaining the series is when read together, rather than 3 a week.
The last time I went into the MT Forums I got insta-banned for posting a story about how I bumped into someone wearing one of your Baka ^ Ni shirts on the same day *I* had one on. I was thrilled: two Megatokyo shirts in the same place at the same time. Why did I get banned? For posting in the “wrong” forum and for not reading an 8 screen FAQ (and for telling a moderator to piss off for not being more understanding for new users on the forums, especially when a topic can be in a FEW different forums by topic).
Honestly Fred: it’s sad to say but there’s some ppl that go to forums just to be a troll. They will cry that they’re starving and beg for bread with one hand while holding a ham in the other. For every troll there’s probably at least 10 quiet non-posting ppl that not only continue to read but LIKE the way things are going.
And I agree: I miss Seraphim and Boo… I think it’s the wings.
When the audience start offering advice on the direction the work should take, creative people should cover their ears and go “la la la la la.”
It is okay to pay attention to whether or not they applaud or boo, this can be valuable to accessing your story telling technique (and remember, some times you _want_ the audience to boo.)
Story telling is not about telling the audience what they want to hear at a given moment. It is about jerking them around, breaking their heart, and then, at the last minute and totally unexpectedly resolving things in a way that seems, in retrospect, inevitable.
Personally, I’ve been enjoying the heck out of Megatokyo the last couple of years, and can’t wait to find out what is going to happen next. The recent, uh, developments in your story line remind me of the old Groucho line from _Animal Crackers_.
Groucho: We took some pictures of the native girls, but they weren’t developed. But we’re going back again in a couple of weeks…
Fred — I’ve been enjoying the story a ton lately. Don’t let the critics get you down — you’ve got a ton of fans out here that just don’t say “Thanks!” as much as we should.
Thanks for the comics, thanks for the incredible story, thanks for the fun characters. Thanks for the whole experience. I’ve enjoyed all the years you’ve given us so far and hope for more to come.
Quote: duellist
>>The problem is that there’s no competition. Of all of the primarily story-driven webcomics I’ve read, none have characters with equal depth, complexity and backstory.
Well, offhand, I’d point you to Alpha-Shade (www.alpha-shade.com) but I don’t know if that’s exactly your cup of tea. But I have to say they do some nice character development stuff there.
Quote: Randy
>>Hell man, why would you go into the forums anyway?
Probably because he wants to know what the people there say/think about the comic. I mean, I’d be curious if I were him…
Anyhow, Fred, this reminds me very much of a thread at Rich Burlew’s GiantITP boards. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl) You may already know of this, from your webcomic-forged connections, but he was pointing out a rather similar issue he had. Although, in his case, it wasn’t the over-analysis of the page that bothered him insomuch as the rampant predictions. But, sa to your problems, I really can’t suggest anything other than keeping away from the stuff. I mean, people will be people and do some rather rediculous things. (I know I’ve done that from time to time.) I gues it’s just one of those personal devils you have to sort through. I guess it’s just ignore, and remember the nonsensical and dissenting in this case are generally more noisy than those in agreement–probably to make up for their inferior numbers. ; )
Skip the ulcer.
Fuck ‘em.
I’ve been reading the comic for a bit over three years now, and it’s still going strong as far as I’m concerned. It’s great, it always has been. Just keep up the good work and go with your own flow.
In a perverse way, some of the idiot comments and compaints are a compliment. People are saying your story has wrapped them up emotionally to such an extent that it is very important to them what happens next. [There's a Pollyanna spin for you ;D] Perhaps you could get someone to synopsize the story thread for you so you can get the general feedback feel w/o having to read the vitriol.
As always, looking forward to find out what comes next and appreciating the continual improvement of the art. The expressions and settings get better and better.
Regards,
Bill in Denver
That’s one of the reasons why I stopped posting so much of my music in forums. While constructive criticism is good, I find that a good deal of it tends to put a dent in my creativity. I’ve come to terms with the fact that there are some people that are going to hate the music that I write and there will be some people that will enjoy it. I tend to write a lot of electronic music that isn’t very dance worthy and that puts some people off.
I’m a little worried about the album I’m working on now and whether or not I’ll be able to sell it. Otakon kind of scared me last year even though it really shouldn’t have. Even after I finished a couple of the tunes after the con, I got zero interest from anyone on the forums. I’m still very grateful that I got the opportunity to write some music for you and I learned a lot from the experience.
It’s not that I’m fishing for compliments, though. I’m just a little scared of failing. I think that’s the hardest fight in doing what I’m doing for a living.
Rock.
This isn’t agnsty… it is putting people in their place. It is like eating the morsels from cookie dough before the cookies are baked. Is cookie dough good? yeah… but hot fresh cookies from the oven are the bomb. And if you have patience… you can eat your cookies and have some milk too. 
I say ignore them. If they feel they know what’s better for the story why don’t they write their own. Then they can see how just how hard it is to put the creative process into a structured design.
Also, I just wanted to say you blew my dreams outta the water. You’re doing an awesome job with something I could have never pulled off. Keep up the great work.
I just got back from Osaka and the jetlag got to me, so I went in the morning to my nearest Borders to get a copy of book 4. It was well worth the wait. Well done.
In response, we all need to rant and it’s your blog, so don’t even bother apologizing. In fact, you should probably have a more “I’m ranting, so don’t give me sh** about it” attitude. Criticism is somewhat productive, but in this case, you probably shouldn’t read any of the discussions until you successfully pull off a story arc. At least by then, they’ll have seen it in the entirety and will make comments based on that, and not on incomplete story arcs and their own (inaccurate) speculation.
Keep up the experimentation with the Copics too. They are coming out well.
In agreement with what said above, I would have to agree that this must be ignored. I’ve been loyally reading since the beginning, and even using your art and medium as a model for my style (I’ve struggled with the choice between inking, CG, sketches, etc. for so long now and still haven’t found a good quick medium I completely like). While your art has developed I’ve been able to learn from you (backgrounds, angles, flow, dialogue, expression, etc.) and you’ve certainly become a superb artist that I”ve come to respect along the years. Your understanding for art and expression exceeds much of what I believed you able to become, and so I stand by and continue to believe that your choices (being unknown to us) will be in a, as in the past, well developed and well done, respectable way. I commend you on your recent depth and character involvement and cannot wait to see what MT has instore for its readers as well as for you.
-kemushi
all i can say really - and it has been said many times already by many people here, but hey, im not gonna let that put me off
- is that you should ignore those brainless idiots that refuse to see past the events of the curret comic to see where it might lead the story in terms of new and interesting plots and subplots.
and as for those people who give you “advice” eg’you suck, get a better storyline’ etc…screw them
(and yes i know that by giving the advice at the beginning of what is rapidly becoming a rant at the unfair pressures placed on those we admire, i am placing myself in the category of those very same annoying football fans you should, i think, ignore, but hey…consistency is the sign of a weak mind ^_^ )
)
their like the people at a football game who shout things like ‘kick the ball, dont look at it’ or ‘run around him not through him dumbass’.
put on the spot they dont know jack
they just THINK they can do better because theyre not under the pressures of playing the actual game - in your case drawing and creating the story (which i personally think is the much tougher “game” having tried it and failed many times myself ^_^) as well as having to please their audience.
so
do what you do
its great
and doesnt need changing
anyway
what im trying to get at
and most likely failing to do so
is that you should just have confidence in your work
which i dont doubt you already do
and those people who suddenly decide they dont like it
theyre not important
cos those who read your comic will continue to do so for the depth and the feeling in the characters and their storylines that you somehow put into them
and even if MT does suddenly does veer off in a completely new direction (eg the big drunk turtle actually becoming ruler of tokyo and largo becoming his arch-enemy
it could only serve to attract a new audience witha slightly different taste in comic
but now ive gone on too long with a mainly piontless rant
so
looking forward to the next issue
catch ye later
Rob XD
wow i only just realised how much i actually wrote
woops
sorry if the uselessness of it bores you
Rob XD
While we’re on the analogy of football (for us Americans, soccer)…
Someone gives you sh**, give ‘em a good headbutt :-p
What a way to end his career.
I empathise. I couldn’t be scrutinised with my work in progress either but, while stressful, think of it as a sign that fans are engaged. When that stuff drops off -thats when you should get an ulcer. Face it Fred, your a bit of a celeb. You are always open to scrutiny. Choosing to ignore it is a great way to deal with it (my favorite way of dealing with stuff:))but telling fans, however nutty, to leave the story speculations at the door is pretty unlikely. The unwashed hoards of the WWW are not prone to being sensitive. And after all you did provide a forum. I do hope you drop in and visit the masses once in a while. Its great to touch base with the creator of something you have grown to love.
I am from Toledo and I hope to meet you and Sarah someday when I stop by your store. I promise you will get nothing but praise from me. I41 can’t wait to see how you wrap this up.
Regards.
Hey folks, I think we’re missing one of the neat bits:
Quote:I suppose other creators have these kinds of problems, getting cold feet about their ideas, but i also think that other creators aren’t dealing with every page they do being scrutinized as they tell the story. That’s what’s fucking wrong with webcomics, and why people rag on MT for being a sucky webcomic while joke-a-day comics are considered the gold standard. Endquote.
That’s pretty insightful. And pretty bold - to say this is what is wrong with webcomics today. I think Fred’s right: story driven comics aggro drama because the fragments of story you get from day to day are something you can argue about.
On the other hand, gag-a-day strips are completely binary: you get the joke or you don’t. If you don’t you move on, and say “it’s not funny anymore.” If you do, you might, maybe, post about the topic. But you don’t complain that “oh, that’s a sterotype.” (Unless it’s relentlessly offensive.)
That constant, unrelenting attention to a small fragment of the story doesn’t really help the story. I’m not surprised that it doesn’t help the author, either.
keep up the good work, Fred.
-r.
*okay, some people do, but really!
Screw the naysayers on the forum. I had to stop reading the forums because I couldn’t stand the elitist tude amongst a cadre of frequent posters there. I can’t even begin to imagine what it must be like for Fred to have to go and read all this garbage about–yes I’ll say it again–something he creates and distributes FOR FREE. I feel like a lot of those people on the forum who have some sense of entitlement to MT forget that it is a three time/week GIFT from Fred to all of us. You know what? If since there are so many people out there who seem to think they know what should be done and how…why don’t they make their own webcomic? Oh right…because it’s incredibly difficult… Hang in there Fred. At least Fredart is a peaceful space (i Hope!)
mega tokyo is a great comic. don’t let the idiots get to you. the fact that so many people on the forum take the time to post about the storyline shows just how successful the comic is at drawing people in and having them come back for more.
You’re amazing.
I’m glad you don’t believe people when they tell you otherwise anymore.
Just keep on doing it and I’ll be happy. ^_^
i agree with randy who said: When the audience start offering advice on the direction the work should take, creative people should cover their ears and go “la la la la la.”
we all want a one of a kind comic! if we give you advise we might mold it into some other comic we read like…. um hot gimmick or …. (i cant think right now) well you get the point.
~scruffy
p.s. KEEP IT UP!!! I LOVE IT!!!
one more thing! i have a question ….
DID PINGS BOOBS GET BIGGER!?!?!?! … or did her uniform shrink in the wash … lol
Maybe you should read the forums like I read horoscopes - a month behind. That’s the way to separate the prescience from the crap - and a good way not to let bogus opinion keep you from making your next step.
But I really appreciate the way you subvert all the anime stereotypes, and I can’t wait to see what you do with the Ping thing.
I have one simple thing to say.
I truly enjoy reading your comics. ^_^
Whatever happened to reading a comic for the sheer enjoyment?
If we analysed the greats…i think we all know we can come up with some shit about it…people should just read the comic and be “in the moment” so to speak (thank you theatre classes xD). Live from frame to frame and enjoy it until the future (aka next comic day) comes ^_^
ok so perhaps it was simple but longer than a few words…so sue me
I
Megatokyo is awesome, it’s my favorite (only web comic I will buy the books the instant they come out), but it’s not the only comic doing what it does, by far. Just the most popular and appealing.
“Fallen Angels Used Books” - has excellent art and writing and character development. Lacks the playing-with-genre, though. Fewer gags than Megatokyo.
“College Roomies From Hell!!!” - has some gags (but not really that much more than Megatokyo) but is mostly a long term story with deep characters and complex plot. Art is not nearly as polished as Megatokyo’s.
“Penny and Aggie” - some gags, but again, not that much more than Megatokyo. Uses a more standard comic strip format, though not always. Plays with genre (in its case, American high school stories). Is telling a complex long term story (recently got a complaint in forum “it’s as slow as Megatokyo” heh).
There are quite a few others, that’s just the ones I happen to read and be familiar with.
I say let them complain and gripe. Your comic has done nothing but improve over the years.
Looking back on that first Blog of the MT site, I find something amusing
“To you, our audience, we make this one pledge, above all else - we shall not fail to suck!”
According to Largo they were already warned so why are they continuing to badger you, they should all be reminded of that? (you don
@Alhambra - in a normal world? Sure. Ideally, the forum should be a sounding board for all things good and bad in the story. Sadly, the MT Forums aren’t quite like that. I used to read’m from time to time; only posted 3 times in 2 years - after the fall out from post #3, I won’t ever again. You’d need a really thick skin to read anything in there… skin like a radiation suit.
Rarely are the complaints helpful or well thought out - it’s usually just a lot of emo-bunk that doesn’t offer ANYthing constructive. Since people can hide behind a profile they’re overly obnoxious about it and they either don’t know or don’t care that they’re messing with a guy’s career.
Sux0rz.
Oh the hate… there are good people on the forum, try not to misrepresent all of them for the actions of one or two whiners. I understand Fred’s position, but that’s because there’s criticism and arrogance there, not because it’s ALL criticism and arrogance.
Some of my favourite MT moments have been participating in the fandom. All of my worst too, but you take the good with the bad in the end.
Fred, I fuckin’ love you.
Do you have a brother?
Fred, I fuckin’ love you.
Do you have a brother?
This rant made me feel…..proud of you.
You should do this more often. Know that the people who critiscize your work,..that’s all they’ll be able to do. Critiscize. It’s your work, so you do whatever you want with it. Those people can either read it, or don’t read it.
Anyway, I’ve been glad the way Megatokyo’s going. It just makes me happier every time. So, keep doing what you do best.
I always figured the main useful purposes of the MDT were: as a clueometer, to measure whether people are getting it or whether the cluestick needs to be made bigger; to soak up the ZOMG! KEWL! posts, thus saving the rest of the forum from being hopelessly overrun; as an omniscient spelling and error-checker; as an occasional source of entertainment.
The MDT falls down when people try to use it to A) critique Mt in its entirety and B) try to use the content of one lone strip to predict the future of Mt in it’s entirety, seriously I want to set a rabid English Lit teacher on these people, “Give me more evidence!” She would scream before coffee stained teeth closed in their throats…
One other place where it falls down, it serves as a very poor clue-stick since the people who don’t get a particular comic often lack the attention span to read even one page of the MDT let alone the whole thing. Or to paraphrase Philweasel: “Ping’s bra doesn’t fit. Ping’s bra doesn’t fit. Ping’s bra doesn’t fit. Ping’s bra doesn’t fit. Ping’s bra doesn’t fit. Fit, Ping’s bra does not. Ping, her bra does not fit. Bra, fit Ping it does not. Does not fit = Ping’s bra. Ping’s bra != Fit. Not does bra Ping’s fit. Fit not does bra Ping’s. For the love of Haruhi, Jenova, Hyne, Lain, Adam, Lilith, and Xephon, PING’S BRA DOES NOT FIT!!!”
You know what? Someone call me when it’s safe to go back in the MDT.
‘Big Unruly Mobs: lynching first and asking questions later since before Salem.’
…
On the other hand some people are getting sick of the situation and trying to impose some degree of sanity on the damn things.
I can imagine things get quite hard when people start tearing apart your next project before they’ve even seen what its going to turn out like. I dont normally frequent the threads, but i was curious to see what people made of Ping’s new assets and was mildly surprised to find a strong negative vibe against them, with comments like “a cheap-cop out for Piro to ogle”.
I personally enjoy the anime stereotypes (and yes, a huge rack is definitely an anime stereotype) portrayed in MegaTokyo, and increasingly more and more over the past years i have become hooked on the storyline. The art is better then ever and the storyline is becoming more and more intense. I normally laugh at “normal” folks for getting hooked on a soap, yet here i am, ever eagerly awaiting the next installment of our favourite Americans and their shenanigans in a world that quite frankly, im sure alot of us would like to live.
The end of chapter 7 was perfect, and I am already bursting with anticipation to find out what the hell has happened to Ping. Pink hair, new rack, behaving strangely…
so ignore the slander. Listen to the praise.
and bring back Boo. I like Boo.
~”Stress: that confused feeling one gets when ones mind overrides the bodies basic instinct to strangle the living daylights out of someone who desperately needs it…”
fred if anyone knows what there doing its u.
if people really could make a perfect webcomic with there own ideasthen the wouldnt post them on ur forum
besides megatokyo is ur creation it was before u heard from them and it will be long after u forgotten about them
chin-up
I would imagine Charles Dickens had to deal with what amounted to Forumite nonsense when he serial published
Fredrin, im sorry. I dont think i will make it to SDCC this year. Im heading to Mexico City to watch Plastic Tree LIVE (J-rock, ex-Visual-kei performers, now mainstream)
I wish you well over there. I live in Tijuana, Mexico.
Greets sir!
I officially left the forums a few months ago and don’t particularly regret it.
Frankly, the air is unhealthy there and the source comes from more than one direction.
“Negative waves, Moriarity…” - Oddball
Chapter 8 appears to be starting well and your preparatory work is showing in the first few strips already. Only question I have at the moment is “from what entry did the Dark One spring?”
though I assume she’s there to gather Ping for school. Nice touch making it quite clear whom Largo is speaking to without him ever saying her name and very interesting that she trusts him to help with the store now.
I saw Volume 4 at B&N here in Oregon, however, I’ll be placing an order for it through the webstore along with a mug, shirt, or two (as soon as one of my clients coughs up some money).
Do whatever you need to do for your sanity. The baby means no SDCC for me this year. If you drive home via Los Angeles; Email us? We’ll treat you for dinner.
You can please some people some of the time, but you can never please everyone all of the time. So why bother trying? Writing to see your ideas in solid form is far more fulfilling than trying to give everyone what they want.
MT has been a fun roller coaster ride of emotion and humor. I wouldn’t have it any other way.